01-08-2011, 08:56 PM,
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RE: What I talk about when I talk about swimming
Swimming is a slow form of drowning I think ... certainly in my case anyway.
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03-08-2011, 07:27 AM,
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marathondan
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RE: What I talk about when I talk about swimming
Put in a km on the graveyard shift last night - 10-11pm. I had hastily cobbled together some bullet point tips from the internet, printed them and put them in a plastic wallet to leave poolside:
- Water level between eyebrows and hairline (that's theoretical hairline for me - my actual hairline is somewhere at the back of my head)
- Look forward and downward
- Shoulder out of water as arm exits
- Hips rotate slightly, under surface
- Body roll – on a skewer, 45 degrees
- 3 kicks per arm
- Kick from hips
- Arm entry between centreline of head and shoulderline
- Thumb enters first
- Elbow exits first
- Hand sweep underwater back in towards centreline
- Breathe with body roll, don’t lift the head – Popeye
- Continuous exhalation
- Bilateral breathing
- Count strokes – efficiency
I didn't have time (or memory) to put all of these into practice, but "thumb entry first" seemed to make a difference. I also realised that as I was always running out of breath, maybe I should try breathing more often. So I cut down from breathing on three strokes to two, but with an extra stroke every ten or so to keep me changing side.
I also tried counting strokes towards the end, and found I was pretty consistently putting in 26 for the 25 m - with a bit of a glide as well. A guy in the next (better) lane looked pretty smooth, and he was putting in around 20 off a bigger glide, which was encouraging. It strikes me that this is a very good measurement of efficiency, and this article (googled just now) agrees. And it looks like I've got a long way to go: "at 6-foot-plus, taking 21 strokes under any circumstances is no different than wildly spinning your pedals in a low gear while cycling down a hill".
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03-08-2011, 11:28 PM,
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RE: What I talk about when I talk about swimming
(03-08-2011, 09:18 PM)Bierzo Baggie Wrote: As for swimmimg being boring I think MLCM has missed the point.
Boring is an unfairly treated adjective I’d say. Nothing wrong with boring.
Swimming’s a bit like yoga I suppose. Great way of emptying your mind.
Fair point. I was never much good at yoga, either.
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04-08-2011, 09:36 AM,
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Bierzo Baggie
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RE: What I talk about when I talk about swimming
In relation to Dan's list..
- Water level between eyebrows and hairline (that's theoretical hairline for me - my actual hairline is somewhere at the back of my head)
I swim with my face flat in the water.
- Look forward and downward
I tend to look at the floor and not ahead as I should do.
- Shoulder out of water as arm exits
Difficult not to?
- Hips rotate slightly, under surface
Very slightly.
- Body roll – on a skewer, 45 degrees
Not sure if I do that.
- 3 kicks per arm
Maybe..
- Kick from hips
No, more of a wriggle of toes.
- Arm entry between centreline of head and shoulderline
Not sure about this one.
- Thumb enters first
Definitely plunge in fingertips first.
- Elbow exits first
Not sure, probably yes.
- Hand sweep underwater back in towards centreline
Yes.
- Breathe with body roll, don’t lift the head – Popeye
Yes.
- Continuous exhalation
Yes.
- Bilateral breathing
No
- Count strokes – efficiency
Wildly spinning pedals.
Wow, there's more to trhis than meets the eye..
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04-08-2011, 11:49 AM,
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marathondan
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RE: What I talk about when I talk about swimming
(04-08-2011, 09:36 AM)Bierzo Baggie Wrote: Body roll – on a skewer, 45 degrees
Not sure if I do that.
Not sure about that one - 45 degrees, really? But it seems the body should be straight in a line, and rotating as on a skewer.
(04-08-2011, 09:36 AM)Bierzo Baggie Wrote: 3 kicks per arm
Maybe..
This is variable; someone said 6, 8 or 10 per full cycle is acceptable (so I chose the lowest). But elsewhere I saw mention of a 2-beat kick (i.e. just one per arm).
(04-08-2011, 09:36 AM)Bierzo Baggie Wrote: Kick from hips
No, more of a wriggle of toes.
Many people, including Tom, have noted that runners tend to have overly rigid ankles when swimming.
(04-08-2011, 09:36 AM)Bierzo Baggie Wrote: Thumb enters first
Definitely plunge in fingertips first.
I think the sideways entry reduces drag. It's an easy one to fix, and certainly felt smoother for me.
(04-08-2011, 09:36 AM)Bierzo Baggie Wrote: Bilateral breathing
No
This is recommended for open water swimming, in case you get prevailing waves (or a splashy swimmer) on one side. But obviously also good for balancing up the muscle use.
(04-08-2011, 09:36 AM)Bierzo Baggie Wrote: Wow, there's more to trhis than meets the eye..
And this is just the basics...
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04-08-2011, 12:43 PM,
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RE: What I talk about when I talk about swimming
(04-08-2011, 12:11 PM)Sweder Wrote: Just as I thought: best left to the fish
Amen, brother Ash.
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05-08-2011, 06:06 PM,
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Sweder
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RE: What I talk about when I talk about swimming
(04-08-2011, 01:24 PM)marathondan Wrote: (04-08-2011, 12:11 PM)Sweder Wrote: Just as I thought: best left to the fish
Two things have recently occurred to me:
1. I need something to train for during the summer months. I've now done one marathon a year for the last three years and my joints have never felt better. But I think two a year might be less good for me. It's still a possibility, but a low impact activity sounds like a better idea.
2. I haven't done any upper body exercise in the last 20 years, as witnessed by my limp flailings in the pool. And actually I didn't really do any for the 20 years before that either - I was just young enough for it not to be a problem. It would be good rectify that situation.
That's all well and good but fish do it so well, and they ain't got arms.
It's a good point about upper body strength. For 26.2 and beyond lack of core/ upper body strength causes most of the problems. I too do bugger all above the waist (Oi Oi!!) aside from swinging sticks and shuffling badly seared meat on the Barbie.
I just can't embrace swimming. Perhaps its because I'm so hopeless technique-wise? In that case I need lesson. 49 and going for swimming lessons? Hmm. Why not? Could do worse.
Maybe a triathlon's not completely out of the question after all.
The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph
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12-08-2011, 09:02 PM,
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marathondan
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RE: What I talk about when I talk about swimming
Another arduous kilometer logged this week. Once a week isn't really enough to improve, but it's hard for me to get to the pool more often than that. Running is so much simpler...
Still consistent at 27 strokes per length. But my multi-tasking skills are being stretched. I can't count strokes, remember when to breathe, and count kicks, at the same time. Something always falls by the wayside (often breathing, unfortunately). I think taking up jazz percussion might be simpler. After a while I stopped counting the strokes per length and started looking at what my hands do under the water. Not sure if it's right or not, but that's the next area of focus.
40 lengths seemed to take even longer this time. More stopping and thinking time perhaps. Still, it's not about speed, but efficiency, at this stage.
Also discovered that my breast stroke is just as terrible as my crawl. Luke (8) challenged me to a race in a 9m pool this week, him backstroke and me breast. I just about scraped a dead heat.
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22-08-2011, 06:34 AM,
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marathondan
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RE: What I talk about when I talk about swimming
Good time BB, you're improving!
This week I inadvertently did 75m crawl without a "breast break" (not as enjoyable as it sounds); I'm nowhere near keeping it going for 500m.
I wouldn't like to take credit for any of the tips, nor indeed would I vouch for any of them being correct. There seems to be contradictory advice out there.
I'm wondering whether it's better to look straight down after all. I did try the body roll and it somehow felt unnatural yet helpful. I also tried reaching down low towards the bottom of the pool on the pull. I don't know whether that's right or not, but it increased my roll.
So, as I was saying, I can't vouch for these tips. In fact I just did another google and came up with this, which looks like a good site, but states "We suggest you avoid thumb-first entry like the plague". OK, scratch that one then. They're big on body roll though.
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11-09-2011, 09:18 AM,
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Bierzo Baggie
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RE: What I talk about when I talk about swimming
(06-09-2011, 12:24 PM)marathondan Wrote: Something to work up to.
Interesting....
constant ear problems made me very wary of swimming in recent weeks which is a shame. I'll keep the thread open but I'm avoiding the water for now...
Confession time. I'm in some way related to Cptn Matthew Webb, the first man to swim the english channel. He was a Shropshire man and my mum's grandma was originally a Webb. I think she was his niece.
Cpt Webb died trying to swim across rapids at the base of the Niagra falls.
Sweder's right you know, ....it's best left to the fish.
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